Test Engineer At Google Over Developer At Microsoft?
Very true. My confusion was based on some people telling me that working at Google as a test engineer and slowly working my way into the developer position might be more worth the effort than working as a developer at Microsoft. Since, I posted this question on this forum, I have chatted with a number of other people and going to chat with another very senior dev today again. Everyone tells me that's bs and I should grab a dev position at MS if I get one because MS is a great company too and it's not like I have the option of becoming a TE at Google vs a developer at a bank or something. So, I think I have got my answer. Your response provide validation to my decision. Thank you.
People sometimes give politically correct answers. Also most companies would probably would LOVE to hire you as a test engineer, so remember this bias when considering their answers.
It is generally much easier and more benefitial to do a QA/TEST --> DEV transition within the same company. Much easier.
It is very hard to get into Google (especially through SWE interviews). Google seems to be in an upward trajectory, with great employee satisfaction etc.
Microsoft seems to be spiralling downward. I call BS on Microsoft being a great company 4-5 years down the line.
Personally, I would have preferred to join Google in that position.
Thank you for your comment.
Personally, difficult interviews will never be a reason for me to take a (supposedly) easier route into any company. I understand what kind of questions they ask and agree that they are difficult. But, I think I should be able to crack an SWE interview.
Anyway, I agree that Google is doing very well. Best in the industry right now. That's the reason I was even thinking so much about this position, even though it's test. But saying MS is on a downward spiral is inaccurate and a shallow/simplistic understanding of what's actually going on in the industry. While the promise in Cloud and Enterprise Engineering and stuff like Xbox indicates anything but a downward spiral, there are other things about Microsoft that don't show up that easily unless you dig for it. There are tons of smart people here who just won't sit back and let a downward spiral happen. The biggest change I see at Microsoft is a universal(top to bottom) acceptance that we have made mistakes and a shift in focus based on that. For example, on executive levels a shift in focus from numbers to drivers(focus on what drives demand for products rather than focus on what numbers are) or on the lower levels like the level I am on, a shift of testing, for instance, from focus on components to scenarios and customer delight. Microsoft still owns the massive PC market and it clearly understands how crucial this point in time is to not lose that and not repeat some of the mistakes it has made. To use that as a foundation to build a unified ecosystem of devices. Then there is this rising focus on embedded systems, internet of things, etc. Trust me, MS is really bad at advertising what its plans are. The ability to learn from mistakes is what gives me optimism and I won't take anybody's word on what will happen in the future. Especially not a proletarian developer's word :). The thing about Google is that it's a great company but as far as getting into Google is concerned, there is a coolness factor associated with it that makes it even more desirable. Which is exactly the opposite with MS. MS is seen as a company for old people. But I try to not get influenced by those kinds of opinions and try to make informed decisions.
What you are saying is exactly what I was hearing initially - a lot - until I started talking to a lot of people, especially those who have been around for a while or interact with the decision makers and understand the direction of the industry. I think at this point my decision to choose a position should be based more on the kind of work that I would like to do just like @BigKdotAtTdot suggested.
Thank you for your comment again.
Frankly, this "test" vs "dev" distinction thing is BS, as if test is something beneath devs (a common problem in Microsoft). FWIW, the SET role at Google would be quite different from the typical test role at Microsoft.
It would do Microsoft good if they got rid of the thinking that test and dev are very different.
Also, I bet most of the folks you talked to are either current or past Microsofties who by definition, are biased.
Yes, Microsoft has a lot of smart folks, but all you need is one person like Steve Ballmer and a few Yes men. Nadella is one of those.
I would strongly suggest you take the Google position, but it seems like you have made up your mind. Good luck.
There is a different between testing(TE) and dev jobs.
Not so much betwen S(D)ET and SWE at lower levels though.
But as your career progresses, ask yourself this question: How many upper level managers are there from testing vs. dev backgrounds?
Would the VP of Engineering at a company more likely to have been a TE or an SWE?
Another question: Is it just as hard to switch from dev to te as it is from te to dev?
Nope.
Why???????
"But as your career progresses, ask yourself this question: How many upper level managers are there from testing vs. dev backgrounds?"
Definitely more from dev backgrounds. At least MS is definitely a dev driven company. That's my personal opinion. I would assume the same answer for Google as well.
"Another question: Is it just as hard to switch from dev to te as it is from te to dev?
Nope."
I agree, and that's why I also think I should not delay my transition anymore. I'll take the hit now and whatever ramp-up is needed instead of waiting and becoming more senior before making the transition.
Agreed. Test vs Dev distinction is a Microsoft thing. Personally, I hate it too. But it's not there so much in newer teams. And I agree SET in Google is very different. That is the reason if I got the SET position I would have taken it. I'm sure you read that I mentioned earlier that I was being offered the TE position and not the SET position. The TE position focuses on a different set of goals that I don't want to be the focus of my career.
As far as Nadella goes, you don't know what you're talking about. He has just been in the job for a little over a month. And yes I spoke with Microsofties. No one else has the level of insight into what's going on within MS that Microsofties do (obviously). And as I said, I am able to appreciate the general sense that people are learning from their mistakes at all levels.
Yes, you are right. I have almost made up my mind. Thanks for wishing me luck.
Well, I am a recent ex-Microsoftie myself, so I do know something about what I am talking about, including Nadella. Anyway...
You love coding and not testing == Developer, no?
- S O U N D W A V E February 28, 2014